Taken from WikiSuccessCanInhibitNewWriters:
I feel you [the NegativeOne
or two in that page] are being extremely unfair to the OfficialXpPersonnel
. Just because some
Xp people sometimes
come off as Calvinist doesn't mean they all believe that if you're not XP God despises you. In his book KentBeck
says there are times when you should not try XP, it just wouldn't work. There are lots of people who are quite rational when discussing how XP relates to other section of programming. If people chose to leave the wiki because they don't like what�s being said that�s their decision, they could just as easily have posted a message to the contrary. Let's try
and keep this discussion rational instead of religious.
I would prefer to say that there are still a lot of UnansweredQuestionsAboutXp?
. Maybe we'll discover that XP will go further than Kent suggests in the book (I'm inclined to think so). On the fringes of what we know the argument is likely to be the most robust. Making comments like "ExtremeUnfairness?"
will tend to drive people like the NegativeOne
away. Then we won't learn as much about the fringes. Then I would leave too. (Except no promises cos I'm as interested in the medium as the message(s).)
If look at the posts I was referring to in WikiSuccessCanInhibitNewWriters they proposed that the discussion of XP precluded the discussion of anything else and blamed the frequent posters of the OfficialXpPersonnel for the lack of new input.
No, I think it is simpler than that. The main NegativeOne
says that based on the evidence of the pages as they are now he thinks the debate was unbalanced. See WikiAsXpTrainingCourse
I was not trying to imply that you should not disagree with them (I normally do just for the fun of it)
now I know who you are!
but was merely saying that personal attacks and whining don't actually accomplish anything. If you don't feel XP has a place in some discussion, say so, just do it in a polite and respectful manner. Flame wars and insults never helped anyone discover anything.
Totally agreed for experienced posters. One of the major lessons from WikiSuccessCanInhibitNewWriters
though was for the Wiki village to make significant allowances for new posters. See RefractingEmotions
- where KentBeck
responded and refracted graciously to an EmotionalBurp
from a new poster leading on to some good, fresh discussion (I thought) in MethodologistsDontProgram
A lot of this discussion is now on the wrong page - but it is
hard to separate discussion of the medium and the message around here. That's the genius of Mr Cunningham and his UltimateTestForJointOwnership
That's the thing about Wiki, anyone can talk about anything. Blaming the XP people for the lack of posts on other topics is like blaming the grociery store for not having printer cables. Go, post, be merry. Start a new topic on WhichColorOfiMac
? Just don't blame others for a problem you can fix.
Yes, see also WikiPrayer
On the brave question itself:
I have experienced massive apathy plus a fair bit of antagonism about EvolutionaryDelivery
The reason XP is hated? Well if it is, it's because for the first time the old ED story is seen as credible and is really winning hearts and minds - partly through better team practices, partly through the C3 project transformation and partly just through an idea whose time has come.
It feels better and it pays better than the previous 12 years. I wouldn't complain.
Why do people hate ED?
[Some people hated it so much, they made a pill that treats it. -- DonBranson
I don't think they do now. 5-15 years ago it was hatred of change that made what we were all doing before look stupid. But mostly they never heard of it! See also IgnoranceFearPrideOrFraud
(where fraud is too strong a word for maximising profit by not telling the whole truth - all WikiPenance
payable to CliffordAdams
). RAD and DSDM had made more incremental, responsive styles hardly hated at all by the late 90s in the UK, ready and ripe for XP which does the same stuff but better.
With XP it's now ... hatred of change that's gonna make the whole world of software look stupid. But you can't have a SoftwareRenaissance
without breaking a few egos, as they say. Even a few XP ones. --rd
People especially hate change that changes profit and incentive structures. That kind of thing can make or break fortunes. ED/XP certainly do this when practiced in the limit.
''Because he's an ignorant monkey that doesn't know better'. See ExtremeSarcasm